Israel plant massiven Militärschlag
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Da ist die Zahl getöteter Feinde ja wohl schon ein Gradmesser für den Erfolg der Aktion....
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/..._australian_warship/
*g*
Grüße
Apfelbaumpflanzer
Dass Du vom Ganzen eine etwas merkwürdige Auffassung hast, kann man in den Threads mit den "ethnischen Säuberungen" nachlesen.
Zitat:
The case of Kana shows how this works. After two Israeli missiles killed 28 civilians in a house there on July 30, the IDF initially charged that Hizbullah had been firing rockets from the vicinity of the targeted house. But Human Rights Watch investigators who visited Kana found that there had been no Hizbullah presence near the bomb site at the time of the attack. IDF sources later admitted to an Israeli military correspondent that Hizbullah wasn't shooting at all from Kana that day.
In some cases, the IDF trotted out video of Hizbullah firing rockets from a village. But it has yet to show that Hizbullah was in a civilian building or vehicle at the time of an Israeli attack that killed civilians. Blaming Hizbullah is simply not an honest explanation for why so many Lebanese civilians died. And without honest introspection, the IDF can't meet its duty and self-professed goal to do everything possible to spare civilians.
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Soviel Einsicht würde ich mir gelegentlich bei einigen der strammen Kriegsverfechter wünschen.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/...&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
Das es neben diesen Zahlen auch andere Ziele gab und gibt ist auch klar.
Ein Erfolg wäre ja wohl auch die Befreiung der 2 Geiseln gewesen. Warum hackst du eigentlich auf mir rum?
Bronstein hat oben die Zahlen genannt und ganz sportlich die Quoten berechnet. Da kam keine Kritik von dir.
Should we now think that we were in fact attacked by Hezbollah - or is this just the latest proof that Hezbollah will lie and lie again for propaganda gain?
"http://www.moqavemat.com - an Iran-based website run by the Hezbollah terrorist group - is running this picture (above) of what it claims is the Israeli ship it hit with a missile last month."
Grüße
Apfelbaumpflanzer
Ich fürchte, die Sache ist längst noch nicht entschieden.
Hoffentlich kommen deutsche Soldaten da nicht in die Schusslinie. Wenn schon unbedingt, dann sollten nur Sanitäter, Pioniere, Nachschubeinheiten neutrale Hilfe leisten; aber sie haben ja auch Waffen, wenn auch nur zur Selbstverteidigung.
Deutsche, wie immer uneinig und zerstritten. Führung verdammt schwach.
Moderation
Moderator: Schwedenkugel
Zeitpunkt: 22.08.06 17:29
Aktion: Löschung des Postings
Kommentar: Regelverstoß - Warum so unfreundlich?
Link: Forumregeln
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m.M.
das passiert halt gewissen id´s mal,
wenn ihre rechthaberei keine bestätigung findet.. *lol*
http://www.europolitan.de/cms/?tid=2&aid=2249&
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Auf jeweils 20 durch Hisbollah-Aktivitäten zu Tode gekommene israelische Soldaten kamen nach israelischen Angaben 7 zu Tode gekommene israelische Zivilisten.
Auf jeweils 20 durch israelische Aktivitäten zu Tode gekommene Hisbollah-Kämpfer kamen 47 zu Tode gekommene libanesische Zivilisten.
Diese Rechnung beruht auf den oben genannten israelischen Zahlen und der oben genannten Gesamtzahl von 1200 libanesischen Opfern. Wenn die Hisbollah-Angabe von 68 Toten richtig wäre, wären es sogar 333 libanesische Zivilopfer auf 20 tote Hisbollah-Kämpfer.
Jetzt mag mancher über eine solche Rechnerei lamentieren, aber sie zeigt, wie und mit welchem "Erfolg" die beteiligten Seiten den Krieg geführt haben.
Auch wenn jeder Tote einer zu viel ist - aber verheerend? Das gibts im Irak in einer Woche, dass schafft schon ein Wirbelkrieg.
Na ja - mal wieder ein selten dämlicher Journalist, der offenabr nicht wissen will, was ein wirklich verheerender Krieg ist.
Upon arrival in Beirut in early August, 2006, Michael Birmingham met Abu Mustafa. Michael is an Irish citizen who has worked with Voices campaigns for several years. Abu Mustafa is a kindly Lebanese cab driver.Having fled his home in the Dahiya neighborhood which was being heavily bombed, Abu Mustafa was living in his car. Abu Mustafa joked that he sometimes went back to his home in the already evacuated area of the Dahiya, just to take a shower or sometimes a proper nap. His family was living with relatives in a safer area. Toward the end of the war, Israeli bombs blasted buildings quite near his home. He tore out of the suburb in his cab and made that his home until we met him again on August 15th. hundreds of people, including parents walking hand in hand with toddlers, process silently along streets lined by wreckage. Even the small children looked extremely sad and grim.
On the fourth floor of a five-story apartment building, a father and his daughters scooped up successive loads of broken glass and pitched them onto the sidewalk below. They called out a warning before each load came crashing down. You have to start somewhere.
On August 17 and 18, two men, both named Mohammed and both in their twenties, took Michael, Ramzi Kysia, Farah Mokhtarazedei, and me to towns and villages south of the Litani River. In each of the towns we visited, we saw appalling wreckage. Nowhere could we see military targets.
In Sriefa, the town center was almost completely destroyed. Residents told us that five or six F-16s bombed the area on July 19th, destroying ten houses, many of them three story buildings. We stared at the rubble, spotting household items, - a child’s high chair, a weaving loom, a toy plastic television.
Neighbors had buried nine corpses in shallow graves when it was too dangerous to be outside for any length of time. On the outskirts of Sriefa, as a handful of women and youngsters watched, workers exhumed the bodies and placed them in plastic body bags which were then wrapped in green shrouds and laid in wooden coffins. Workers sealed the lids and then wrapped the coffins in flags. These slain men were communists. The flags bore dual symbols for Lebanon and the Lebanese communist party.
Later, we watched a long funeral procession pass, carrying 25 of the 40 people killed in Sriefa. Uniformed men, marching, led the procession. Women followed, clutching one another in grief, next boys bearing flags, and finally the coffin-bearing vans, each with pictures of the brothers, fathers, and sons that would be buried.
On the morning of the 18th, explosions awakened us. I thought the cease fire had ended. Our hosts reassured us that the Lebanese army was blowing up explosives. In the garden outside the home where we stayed, the local Hezbollah municipal leader spotted three unexploded cluster bombs. We had nearly driven over two cluster bombs lying on the road the previous day. The sound of each blast destroying hideous bombs was oddly comforting. You have to start somewhere.
Many people we talk to in Lebanon understand that the majority of Israelis urged their government to fight this war once it began. Did the proponents of war, in Israel, understand that there is no sign of a military target in the villages of southern Lebanon where homes, schools, clinics, grocery stores and children’s playgrounds have been destroyed? On August 18th, Anthony Cordesman published a working draft of a report called “Preliminary Lessons of Israeli-Hezbollah War.” I read excerpts of it in commentary written by Helena Cobban. Cordesman, a seasoned military strategist, writing about the Israeli Air Force bombardment of Lebanon, remarks that “the air campaign continued to escalate against targets that often were completely valid but that sometimes involved high levels of collateral damage and very uncertain tactical and military effect. The end result was to give the impression Israel was not providing a proportionate response, an impression compounded by ineffective (and often unintelligible) efforts to explain IAF actions to the media.
I wish that Mr. Cordesman could stand for just five minutes at one intersection in the small city of Bint Jbail. He would see certain usage of conventional military weapons used against a civilian population. He would see certain evidence of a war crime. Turn in one direction and you see the remains of a school building, some desks and chairs still aligned in careful rows, visible because a whole side of the building is demolished. In another direction, a damaged stadium. Next to it, a field where 30 rockets killed a flock of sheep. One man managed a chuckle, telling us that 2 million dollars was spent to kill these sheep, that these must have been the most costly sheep in all of Lebanon. On the 27th and 28th of July, 100 bombs fell between two mosques in Bint Jbail within 11 minutes. At one point, the Israelis bombed for 11 hours straight. Then there was a break and they bombed for 21 hours until most of the town was completely destroyed.
It’s estimated that about 60,000 people lived in Bint Jbail.
Of what military value, as a target, is a school, an entire block of residences, a town square, a favorite swimming hole? Why is it strategically valuable to drop many hundreds of cluster bombs that fall in gardens and along roadsides between small farming villages?
The residents of Bint Jbail and other southern Lebanese cities as well as those who lived in the Dahiya and in Baalbeck had jobs, homes, and basic securities just a little over a month ago. Now, billions of euros and other currencies, along with ingenuity, resources, talents, will be directed toward aid and recovery. Such aid might have been helping relieve suffering elsewhere in the world had this war not “escalated.”
Both legally and rationally, you cannot say “everyone living there is Hezbollah. You can’t just walk away from the appalling damage and say, they were warned. Or can you? Can a state get away with it, backed up by other world bodies?If that’s the case, then ordinary people bear a grave responsibility to demand that leaders own up to war crimes. Yes, finding a proportionate response to war crimes when so much power is concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people, many of them reckless and dangerous leaders of the United States and Israel, is a daunting task.
Kathy Kelly is a co-coordinator of Voices in the Wilderness. Her book, Other Lands Have Dreams, is published by CounterPunch/AK Press. She can be reached at: kathy@vcnv.org
ziemlich auf den Senkel.Und dann noch alles dransetzen, Threads vollzumüllen, damit jeder Leser meint: Was soll den diese Scheiße?". Karlchen_II 18.08.06 18:30
oder warum sonst hat israel die waffelnruhe gebrochen???
für ein kleines land, wie libanon fallen die 1200 toten doch schon ins gewicht, zumal durch die zerstörung der infrastruktur noch tausende hinzukommen.
Sondertreffen der EU-Minister über UNO-Truppe.
Das geforderte "robuste Mandat" für die die UNO-Friedenstruppe im Libanon nimmt Gestalt an. Die Soldaten sollen einem UNO-Dokument zufolge mehr Befugnisse zur Gewaltanwendung erhalten, und unter anderem zur Durchsetzung ihres Auftrags auf bewaffnete Gegner schießen dürfen.
Auch Schutz von Zivilisten
Den Blauhelmen soll der Gewalteinsatz nicht nur zur Selbstverteidigung, sondern auch zum Schutz von Zivilisten erlaubt werden, heißt es in dem 21 Seiten umfassenden Dokument weiter. Es soll an die Libanon-Resolution anknüpfen, die der UNO-Sicherheitsrat am 11. August verabschiedet hatte.
Die Resolution regelt die Waffenruhe zwischen der libanesischen Hisbollah-Miliz und Israel und sieht die Stationierung einer aufgestockten UNO-Friedenstruppe im Südlibanon vor.
Debatte über Richtlinien
Die neuen Richtlinien seien an die Länder weitergegeben worden, die sich wahrscheinlich an der größeren Truppe beteiligen werden, sagte der Sonderberater von UNO-Generalsekretär Kofi Annan, Vijay Nambiar in Jerusalem.
"Bisher haben wir noch keine größeren Änderungswünsche erhalten", sagte er. "Wir gehen davon aus, dass wir sie in Kürze fertigstellen können."
"Prinzipiell defensives" Mandat
Die französische Tageszeitung "Le Monde" berichtete, dass das Mandat der UNO-Truppe "prinzipiell defensiv" sein soll. Die Entwaffnung der schiitischen Hisbollah werde demnach grundsätzlich der libanesischen Armee überlassen. UNO-Soldaten sollen aber Hisbollah-Kämpfer entwaffnen dürfen, wenn sie ihnen begegnen.
Um die brüchige Waffenruhe zwischen Israel und der radikal-islamischen Hisbollah zu festigen, wollen die Vereinten Nationen bis zum 2. September 3.500 Soldaten zur Unterstützung ihrer 2.000 Mann starken UNIFIL-Truppe in den Libanon entsenden. Bis November soll die Blauhelmtruppe auf 15.000 Soldaten aufgestockt werden.
EU entscheidet über Beitrag zu UNO-Truppe
Die EU-Außenminister vereinbarten indes ein Sondertreffen am Freitag, um über den europäischen Beitrag zur Truppe zu beraten.
Zum außerordentlichen Treffen wird auch UNO-Generalsekretär Kofi Annan in Brüssel erwartet. Schon am Mittwoch treffen einander die EU-Botschafter, um den Militäreinsatz im Libanon zu diskutieren. Vor allem wollten sie sich über die genauen Einsatzregeln verständigen.
Italien fordert klarere Vorgaben
Italiens Premier Romano Prodi forderte genauere Vorgaben für den Einsatz. "Wir brauchen mehr Klarheit, ein präzises Mandat, präzise Inhalte und eine sehr deutliche Definition der Allianzen", sagte er.
Er schloss sich der Forderung von US-Präsident George W. Bush nach einer weiteren UNO-Resolution an.
Der italienische Außenminister Massimo D'Alema hatte am Dienstag der Zeitung "La Repubblica" gesagt, Rom sei bereit, 2.000 bis 3.000 Soldaten für die UNO-Truppe zu stellen. Das sei etwa ein Drittel dessen, was insgesamt von Europa erwartet werde.
Hoffen auf Frankreich
Zugleich bekundete er seine Hoffnung, dass Frankreich mehr als die bisher angekündigten 200 Soldaten schicken werde. Ursprünglich war Frankreich als Führungsmacht im Gespräch gewesen. Österreich will keine Soldaten in den Libanon schicken.
Fragile Waffenruhe
Unterdessen wurde die mehrfach gebrochene Waffenruhe am Dienstag eingehalten, nachdem israelische Soldaten am Vorabend das Feuer auf mutmaßliche Hisbollah-Milizionäre eröffnet hatten.
Die libanesische Armee rückte am Dienstag weiter in Richtung der israelischen Grenze vor. Nach Armeeangaben wurde die Truppenpräsenz in der Region um Kfar Shuba, Shebaa und Khiyam im Südosten des Landes verstärkt.
Syrien gegen Stationierung von UNO-Truppen an Libanon-Grenze.Syriens Präsident Baschar el Assad hat sich am Dienstag gegen die Stationierung von UNO-Soldaten an der libanesisch-syrischen Grenze ausgesprochen.
"Das wäre ein Entzug von libanesischer Souveränität und eine feindeselige Haltung", sagte Assad laut vorab verbreiteten Auszügen in einem Interview mit dem Fernsehen von Dubai.
Stopp von Waffenschmuggel
Israel verlangt, dass die geplante 15.000 Mann starke UNO-Truppe zur Überwachung des Waffenstillstands im Südlibanon auch Grenzübergänge überwacht, um Waffenlieferungen aus Syrien an die libanesische Hisbollah-Miliz zu verhindern.
Nach den Worten des israelischen Ministerpräsidenten Ehud Olmert würde eine solche Überwachung die Aufhebung der Luft- und Seeblockade gegen den Libanon ermöglichen.
Der UNO-Sondergesandte Terje Roed-Larsen sagte am Dienstag, es gebe Anzeichen, dass der Libanon um Hilfe bei der Kontrolle seiner Grenzübergänge bitten könnte.
Assad: Israel muss zuerst abziehen
Im Streit um die Schebaa-Farmen im Grenzgebiet zwischen Syrien, dem Libanon und Israel forderte Assad einen Rückzug Israels als Vorbedingung für eine Grenzziehung.
Die UNO-Resolution zur Beendigung des Libanon-Krieges verlangt die Markierung der internationalen Grenzen des Libanon. Das betrifft die Schebaa-Farmen, die seit 1967 von Israel besetzt sind.
"Isolation Syriens gescheitert"
"Der Sieg der Hisbollah reichte aus, um Israel eine Lektion zu erteilen, dass die Isolation Syriens gescheitert ist", sagte Assad. Es gebe immer noch eine Chance auf Frieden im Nahen Osten. Allerdings könne die Gelegenheit dazu binnen Wochen oder Monaten vorbei sein.
Bei dem Feldzug habe Israel daher wahrscheinlich Kriegsverbrechen begangen, teilte Amnesty am Mittwoch mit. Die Organisation rief die Vereinten Nationen in einem Bericht dazu auf, schnell eine unabhängige Untersuchung möglicher Völkerrechtsverletzungen durch beide Konfliktparteien einzuleiten.
Verstöße seien Kriegsverbrechen
„Die Fakten weisen stark darauf hin, dass die umfassende Zerstörung von öffentlichen Einrichtungen, Stromwerken, zivilen Wohnungen und der Industrie viel mehr absichtlich und ein wichtiger Bestandteil der Militärstrategie als bloß kollaterale Schäden waren“, hieß es in dem Amnesty-Bericht. Viele der in dem Bericht untersuchten Verstöße seien Kriegsverbrechen, aus denen sich eine individuelle Verantwortung ergebe.
Israel hat Vorwürfe wiederholt zurückgewiesen, im Libanon-Krieg bewusst Zivilisten getötet zu haben. Die Armee betont, mit Flugblättern vor Angriffen gewarnt zu haben. Zudem beschuldigt Israel die Hisbollah, Raketen auf Israel aus der Nähe von zivilen Einrichtungen im Südlibanon abgefeuert zu haben. Bei dem rund fünfwöchigen Krieg kamen Amnesty zufolge mehr als 1100 Menschen im Libanon ums Leben – ein Drittel davon Kinder. Auf israelischer Seite starben knapp 160 Menschen bei militärischen Kämpfen und Hisbollah-Raketeneinschlägen.
Sad men and women stood in a large circle as men carried 30 coffins, three of them wrapped with Hezbollah’s yellow flags and the rest draped with the Lebanese national colors, to lay them in their graves.
Below is an interview Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman had with Kathy Kelly, a member of Voices for Creative Non-Violence and the founder of Voices in the Wilderness, after she had visited the site of the worst Israeli massacres in the recent month-long war in Lebanon.
Peace activist Kathy Kelly interviewed many survivors of the Israeli crime in Qana.
AMY GOODMAN: Peace activist Kathy Kelly visited Qana on Saturday and spoke to many survivors and grieving relatives. She is the founder of Voices for Creative Nonviolence and Voices in the Wilderness. She joins us on the phone from Amman, Jordan. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Kathy.
KATHY KELLY: Hello, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s good to have you with us. Can you describe your visit to Qana?
KATHY KELLY: Amy, on August 17, we have with us a list of massacres that Norman Finkelstein had compiled, and we asked two young men, who very kindly had offered to drive us through the villages in southern Lebanon and act as translators for two days, if they might take us to Qana. And we went to the town and, you know, as soon as you enter, people can point you and there are signs that point you to the site of a massacre that had taken place in 1996, when 105 people taking refuge in a UN camp had been killed. And then, just a very short walk away from that is the place where this latest massacre took place. And as we turned a corner, we realized that we were walking right toward the homes of two of the families who had lost loved ones, and they lived literally right across the road, really not a very wide road at all, from the building that had been hit.
We walked over to the building, and we could see that it was completely demolished. People had taken shelter in the basement of this building. Several children were at play, and they were very friendly toward us. And when we turned around and walked back toward the families, women sitting in mourning, waiting to receive relatives, gestured for us, Sarah and me, to come and sit with them, and our male companions went and sat with the men just next door. And I have to say that I’m then at a very great disadvantage, because both of the translators were gone, but in a way, there wasn’t a lot of translation necessary.
We sat in silence for a long time with the women. Unbearable grief for 18 days, they had borne their grief, waiting for the time when, as you mentioned, the burials could happen. We had seen the graves being dug when we came into town. And two of the women there had lost their children: one, Umm Zayneb, was the mother of Zayneb, a six-year-old girl; the other, Umm Zahara, was the mother of Zahara. And they wanted us to understand that the children had been running back and forth across from this sheltering building back to their homes for days. And they pointed upwards, and still the drone of the surveillance planes could be heard. And certainly we caught their question: couldn't the Israeli planes see that there were children going in and out of that building?
AMY GOODMAN: Kathy, I wanted to play for you the comments of a man here who lost family members in Qana. The victims of the Qana massacre came primarily from two families: the Shalhoub and Hashem families, who had sought refuge in a building in the town. The day after the Israeli air strike, we spoke with a member of one of those families. He is Mike Shalhoub. He runs a restaurant called Grape Leaves in Dearborn, Michigan.
He was born in and grew up in Qana. At the time we spoke to him, initial reports had put the death toll from the attack at near 60. He had just returned from visiting family in Qana.
MIKE SHALHOUB: I was with the kids. We were having a vacation there. You know, I go to Qana. We spend a couple days. Then we go back to the mountains. You know, we go everywhere in Lebanon to have fun. Then, the kids, when I left, they went to Qana, because they love it there. All those little kids died. They were -- used to be their friends. Israel decided to have a war against Lebanon.
Actually, I saw those cousins-They were there, and I hadn’t seen them in a couple years -- two or three years. And we were talking about the old time and, you know, memories. And it choked me up when I heard it on the news. Two brothers -- they were kind of my age -- when I saw them this time, we were talking about what they're doing and how things are going with them. And they just told me they have a construction company, opened a company like a year ago to build houses, and they were doing great. You know, they were just very peaceful people. Those two brothers alone, they lost their kids, too, each one of them. One of them has three kids, and one of them has four kids. They died with them, too, with their wives, except one of the wives stayed alive. She made it. And, you know, she has to live her life now looking at pictures of her husband and kids. It’s very hurtful.
This house wasn’t their house. It was a building under construction. And they were both building it for their cousin from their mom's side. And this house, this is a safer place, because they have underground area. And their houses is around. It’s not like that far. It’s not even half a block’s away from around everyone’s house. But it’s hard to get together, so this way, if anything happened to anybody, everybody, you know, is together on this situation.
And, obviously, that was their last -- and they don’t want to leave, because there was no chance to leave. Telling the people to get out -- you know, army telling the people to get out -- Israel Army, I mean. And then they hit them on the roads. So, when I talk to my brother, he says he talked to them, and he told them to get out of there. And he says, well, they’re not trying to get out of there, because they're afraid they're going to get hit on the road, like what happened in like the city of Dweir. So they decided to be there, and they thought they would be more safer on that side. And, obviously, you know, crazy pilot, that he decided to get his revenge on those kids.
When I was watching the news, I was shocked, so I kept watching to see where it at and where it hit. So then, they say that, you know, it’s a neighborhood of Shalhoub's family. Then I know, it’s my family. You know, I know. I mean, no other reason not to believe this, because we know this area. It’s only us. 90 percent of the majority there is the Shalhoub family.
So that shocked me up. I was -- I don’t know what to do. I even -- I turned the TV off. I disconnected the TV, so my parents would not see that, would not see those kids dying like that. I have to lay it down a little bit at a time for them. I couldn’t get through from here, so my brother -- I called my brothers and just talking to them to see what they’re doing and how they're doing. He brought some of them to Beirut, get them down to Beirut area where it’s safe, you know, safe places. There’s some places, some areas safe, some areas not safe. And I don’t know if any area is going to be safe after this. All we’re asking is for the ceasefire to happen.
AMY GOODMAN: Mike Shalhoub, speaking to us from Dearborn, Michigan. He runs a restaurant there called Grape Leaves. He was born in Qana, talking about his time in Qana this summer, before the attack that killed many members of his family. Kathy Kelly, you come from Chicago, Voices in the Wilderness. Your response, as you just came out of Qana?
KATHY KELLY: Well, I hope that Mike Shalhoub’s words and his suffering will be something that people can hold in their hearts. I think it's very difficult for people in the United States to fully understand the massive, massive tragedy that has befallen people in many small villages just like one which he described. You know, the mothers that we sat with sorted through newspapers bearing the pictures of their children and one man holding little Zayneb’s lifeless body aloft. It took five hours for ambulances to get to the site of the massacre.
And I think that it’s also important to read and study the draft report that Anthony Cordesman has issued called a “Preliminary Report on ‘Lessons’ of the Israeli-Hezbollah War.” And he’s a very seasoned military strategist. And he writes that the air campaign continued to escalate against targets that were often completely valid, but that sometimes involved high levels of collateral damage and very uncertain tactical and military effects. Well, those are words that are dispassionate and cool, and I think if he could sit with these parents who have lost their children, if he could go and visit Mr. Shalhoub in his restaurant and understand what collateral damage means and understand how for generations people will remember what has happened --
AMY GOODMAN: Kathy Kelly, I want to thank you for being with us, speaking to us from Amman, Jordan, just back from Qana. Kathy Kelly has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize several times.
"Jetzt mag mancher über eine solche Rechnerei lamentieren, aber sie zeigt, wie und mit welchem "Erfolg" die beteiligten Seiten den Krieg geführt haben."