Calypte und die Zeit nach AIDS2004 in Bangkok


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1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikeJoelu ganz klar,Aufträge müssen Kommen!

 
  
    #2376
13.10.04 13:26
ansonsten geht es nicht gut.
Aber ich bin überzeugt, das Aufträge kommen!.
Begrüdungen 3
1. Investor Marr-Group und dessen Beziehungen in China und seine Anteile von Caly.
2. Schnelltests mit absoluter Ergebnissicherheit
3. Lizenz mit ANI Biotech
4.Lizenz mit Bio Rad
.Grüße Lucky

Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikesind sogar 4 Begründungen,sorry

 
  
    #2377
13.10.04 13:26

Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikeheftiger Schlagabtausch in RK

 
  
    #2378
13.10.04 15:43
60402 Bulls### gumby caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:42 AM EDT


60401 Zipper- Your MORON that is illegal DRUGS not HIV t alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:41 AM EDT


60400 Zipper- Your MORON that is illegal DRUGS not HIV t alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:41 AM EDT


60399 Zipper-Here go order one for you and Roy.  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:39 AM EDT


Get the trading tool that savvy investors use - Qcharts.com.
60398 FDA Crackdown on Illegal Products  caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:36 AM EDT


60397 Zippo-Where in your Kangaroo courtroom????????  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:36 AM EDT


60396 Of course gumby..it is illegal to sell non approve caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:32 AM EDT


60395 Zipper-Gumby says Caly0 is a moron that twists lie alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:32 AM EDT


60394 Zipper- WHO approval not required for internet sal alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:30 AM EDT


60393 Gumby says CYPT getting ready to break U.S laws caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:29 AM EDT


60392 WHO comments from Friday's filing gumby caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:29 AM EDT


60391 Zipper-I see you are going to pound the heck out o alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:25 AM EDT


60390 No WHO approval pending. They have yet to submit r caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:24 AM EDT


60389 ..."We believe  caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:22 AM EDT


60388 Comments in last SEC filing state rapid test not e caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
9:20 AM EDT


60387 stratford55,  newgreenpaper   13 Oct 2004  
9:18 AM EDT


60386 newgreenpaper, I keep looking for news of the WHO stratford55   13 Oct 2004  
9:04 AM EDT


60385 Zipper-Now where is the linko to support your stat alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
9:00 AM EDT


60384 Deliverance---.  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
8:50 AM EDT


60383 The Dad...  jpetroinc   13 Oct 2004  
8:47 AM EDT


60382 ManyManyLongsOutThere!!! Mum is the word, Silence  newgreenpaper   13 Oct 2004  
8:47 AM EDT


60381 Looks like I found one of Roy's buttons.... LOL..  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
8:46 AM EDT


60380 $newgreenpaper$  thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
8:18 AM EDT


60379 Roy, So you admit that insurance companies discrim thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
8:13 AM EDT


60378 difference between playin by the rules and playin  newgreenpaper   13 Oct 2004  
8:04 AM EDT


60377 caly with any rapid test legal sales months if not roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
8:03 AM EDT


60376 Greenie also advocates CYPT to break US law.. caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:56 AM EDT


60375 Congratulations to thedad and alan, You are right  newgreenpaper   13 Oct 2004  
7:53 AM EDT


60374 Thedad,  roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:53 AM EDT


60373 The bottom line  thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:53 AM EDT


60372 It is Good to LOL at bashers in A.M. newgreenpaper   13 Oct 2004  
7:49 AM EDT


60371 Mandatory testing for HIV has vast social, persona thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:49 AM EDT


60370 gumby now claims it is legal for US company to sel caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:46 AM EDT


60369 What I do know, Roy, is that the oppossing forces  caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:44 AM EDT


60368 Zipper-Sounds like you are making up US laws as yo alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:44 AM EDT


60367 Did that purposefully to send you to you dictionar roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:44 AM EDT


60366 Use, abuse and ramifications  thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:44 AM EDT


60365 Roy- Isn't it kninda early to be into the bottle a alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:43 AM EDT


60364 gumby basically says breaking U.S laws fine with h caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:42 AM EDT


60363 Don't know the answer to that question Roy caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:40 AM EDT


60362 Zipper- I predict  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:38 AM EDT


60361 serious question for caly or the dad.  roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:38 AM EDT


60360 Moreover, the systems which require in-person fac thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:35 AM EDT


60359 Roy- Where did you pick up the Brit from??????  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:34 AM EDT


60358 Which is it gumby..advocating breaking the law or caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:33 AM EDT


60357 Trinity Biotech Gets FDA OK for HIV Test  dd_man_2004   13 Oct 2004  
7:33 AM EDT


60356 While it may be true that receiving test results  thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:31 AM EDT


60355 Home HIV Rapid Urine test kit.  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:31 AM EDT


60354 There remains debate around in-home HIV collectio thedad3   13 Oct 2004  
7:29 AM EDT


60353 and Gumby the only thing better that seeing Tony  roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:27 AM EDT


60352 Yeah right, a nine month SEC inquiry just to look roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:24 AM EDT


60351 Or predicting CYPT will break U.S laws?  caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:20 AM EDT


60350 Is gumby advocating for CYPT to break U.S. laws.. caly2zero   13 Oct 2004  
7:20 AM EDT


60349 Roy Boy- Double up on the vodka and Metimucil int alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
7:10 AM EDT


60348 Yes Jonas,  roy_hinkley   13 Oct 2004  
7:07 AM EDT


60347 Looks like I found one of Roy's buttons.... LOL.. alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
6:34 AM EDT


60346 Home HIV tests from abroad........  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
6:24 AM EDT


60345 Home test kits now available  alan_hale_jr   13 Oct 2004  
6:23 AM ED








Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

1506 Postings, 7392 Tage joelulucky, meine aussage aus #2373 stimmt...

 
  
    #2379
13.10.04 18:00
..."Guidance We expect that our third  quarter 2004 revenues will be in the range of
$350,000 as our reference lab customers  rebalance their  inventories  following
accelerated  purchases  in the  second  quarter  during  our  transition  of EIA
manufacturing  from our former  Alameda,  California  facility to our Rockville,
Maryland location.  As a result, we project full-year 2004 revenue from the sale
of our current  ELISA tests to be in the range of $2.6 million to $3.2  million.
Although  we have  received  inquiries  regarding  the  availability  of the BED
incidence  test,  we are not providing any guidance on sales of that product for
the remainder of 2004."...


es steht in dem filing vom freitag auf seite 56

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/...smaXBhZ2U9MzAyOTMzMiZkb2M9MSZudW09NjA=

diesen link einsetzen. dann, wenn die seite da ist, ganz runterskrollen. im vorletzten abschnitt steht es.

leute...ohne häme und spott: denkt über euer weiteres engagement nach. nutzt den nächsten kleinen hype zum verluste begrenzen. das schicksal wird seinen lauf nehmen. cataldo ist und bleibt einfach ein dreckschwein, dass euch alle abzockt.
wieso, wieso um alles in dieser welt sind die umsätze totz exzellenter kooperationen und vertriebskanäle sooooooooo schlecht???

klar, 2005 könnt ihr jetzt wieder sagen...das thema hatten wir schon letztes jahr im caly board. da schrieen die hardliner: 2004!!!

denkt an die cash-situation. bei solchen umsätzen werden unweigerlich noch mehr aktien ausgegeben, um den riesigen verwaltungsapparat bei caly zu bezahlen! wenn ihr nicht schmeißt, machen es die anderen...sobald die mk unter 50.000.000 geht, bekommt cataldo schwierigkeiten mit seiner amex-zulassung. dann muß er noch mehr aktien ausgeben, um die mk wieder kursfristig zu erhöhen. ihr werdet, wenn ihr in caly drin bleibt die ganze bittere wahrheit hart spüren. das muß nicht sein.

einige von euch haben vor ca. 2 monaten angefangen, die reißleine zu ziehen. ihr seid jetzt schon spät dran...

CALYPTE BIOMEDICAL - : HIV

Time & Sales most recent  next page
Rec. Time Action Price Volume
11:40:28 AM Trade 0.37  10000  
11:37:24 AM Trade 0.37  10000  
11:33:42 AM Ask 0.37  26600  
11:33:42 AM Trade 0.37  3500  
11:33:10 AM Trade 0.37  8000  
11:28:08 AM Ask 0.37  30100  
11:11:34 AM Trade 0.36  5000  
10:59:10 AM Trade 0.37  1000  
10:54:10 AM Ask 0.37  38100  
10:48:52 AM Bid 0.36  103000  
10:46:06 AM Trade 0.37  1000  
10:41:06 AM Ask 0.37  39100  
10:31:36 AM Trade 0.36  5000  
10:23:38 AM Ask 0.37  40100  

 

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994joelü für dich

 
  
    #2380
13.10.04 18:44


http://www.calypte.com/PRODUCTS/Vanguard%20BSP.htm

http://www.calypte.com/PRODUCTS/Vanguard%20OMT.htm

http://www.calypte.com/PRODUCTS/Vanguard%20U.htm



Vorhanden nur Außerhalb der Vereinigten Staaten....

Was folgt daraufhin?

Gruß

C.O

Wir haben zeit uns läuft nichts davon wir vertrauen umserem unternehmen..  

1506 Postings, 7392 Tage joelubroker, wenn du meinst, dass das deine kohle

 
  
    #2381
13.10.04 18:47
rettet...bitte schön. warum kommen denn dann keine umsätze? was helfen dir auf dem papier die besten produkte, wenn die umsatzzahlen grottenschlecht sind...  

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994Geduld mein lieber geduld

 
  
    #2382
13.10.04 18:52

die Umsätze kommen schon sehr bald wirst auch du dich wundern ....

oder meinst du die machen ein cut?

Gruß

C.O

 

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994Das Jahr ist noch nicht um

 
  
    #2383
13.10.04 18:55

Ich verstehe deine ungeduld.

Denk an mich wenn das feuerwerk los geht so wie ich an dich gedacht habe bei augrid.

Gruß

C.O  

1506 Postings, 7392 Tage joeluokay broker, werde an dich denken,

 
  
    #2384
13.10.04 19:15
so wie du an mich gedacht hast bei augrid.

manchmal geschehen zeichen und wunder, warum nicht hier?

die wahrscheinlichkeit halte ich jedoch für nicht sehr hoch...  

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994Einzigartiger Gefährte Joelü

 
  
    #2385
13.10.04 19:16


Dich nimmt sogar im Raging Bull keiner für voll


: )

By: alan_hale_jr  
13 Oct 2004, 12:52 PM EDT

Joenrw-Go play on the autobahn tonight and wear dark clothing along with a black ski mask.
Catch yourself a speeding 180KPH Porche. Any color will do.

Dummkopf



Gruß

C.O

 

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994; )

 
  
    #2386
13.10.04 19:20

ich habe dir schonmal gesagt das du uns davon nicht abhalten kannst.
Versuch es wo anders.


Gruß

C.O

 

1145 Postings, 7396 Tage Brokersince1994typisch jöelü

 
  
    #2387
13.10.04 19:24
By: joenrw  
13 Oct 2004, 01:21 PM EDT

Msg. 60454 of 60456
(This msg. is a reply to 60451 by alan_hale_jr.)

Jump to msg.

alan - f uc k i ng moron - jr....


 

1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikeClose 0,37

 
  
    #2388
13.10.04 22:32
nicht einmal Insiderverkäufe Kurs wird eingefroren und "unten gehalten"
Die Party beginnt bald , sehr bald.
Freue mich darauf, guten Abend noch
Grüße Lucky




Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

2171 Postings, 7489 Tage reliablyWelchen Grund gibt es

 
  
    #2389
13.10.04 23:56
den Kurs unten zu halten?
Gibt es dafür eine logische Erklärung?  

1544 Postings, 7908 Tage werweißKompiniere, da bahnt sich was an

 
  
    #2390
14.10.04 10:56
PRESS RELEASE
BASKETBALL GREATS YAO MING AND MAGIC JOHNSON BREAK NEW GROUND ON HIV/AIDS AWARENESS IN CHINA -- TV Ad Campaign with Chinese and U.S. Basketball Heroes is First of its Kind in China, Where HIV/AIDS is Spreading Rapidly --


NEW YORK – The Chinese AIDS Initiative (CAI), an alliance of Chinese and international partners dedicated to helping China accelerate its response to HIV/AIDS, and the National Basketball Association (NBA) will jointly release a series of television announcements promoting HIV/AIDS awareness in China on October 14, in conjunction with the first-ever NBA games to be played in that country.  The ads, the first of their kind to be broadcast on the Chinese mainland, feature Houston Rockets’ NBA All-Star Yao Ming and Basketball Hall of Famer Earvin “Magic” Johnson.

Yao Ming is a hero both in his native China and in the U.S., where he is the starting center for the Houston Rockets.  Magic Johnson, a former L.A. Lakers superstar, disclosed his own HIV-positive status in 1991 and has worked to raise AIDS awareness on a worldwide basis ever since.

The 30-, 45- and 60-second PSAs are designed to help educate Chinese citizens about HIV/AIDS prevention and dispel common misconceptions about how the disease is transmitted.  In the four English and Chinese language ads, Yao and Magic play basketball together, embrace and share a meal…each an important visual confirmation that HIV/AIDS is not transmitted casually.  Viewers are then encouraged to visit www.aids333.com, a Chinese-language AIDS information website that will launch with the campaign on October 14.

“China is taking action to address HIV/AIDS, but the epidemic there is still growing rapidly,” noted Dr. David Ho, Director and Chief Executive Officer of the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center, the principal organizer of the Chinese AIDS Initiative.  “Today, there is a small window of opportunity to change the course of this epidemic in the world’s most populous nation.  Education, especially for young people, is key to slowing

this epidemic in China.”

“Yao Ming and Magic Johnson are internationally known and admired,” noted NBA Senior Vice President of Community Relations Kathy Behrens.  “Both men generously agreed to join us in this effort to utilize the popularity of NBA basketball in China and deliver a lifesaving message: that HIV can be stopped if everyone learns the facts about preventing the disease, and that people with HIV deserve support, compassion and care.”

The Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) estimates that 10-20 million Chinese will be infected with HIV by the year 2010 unless immediate action is taken to prevent the disease’s spread.

The Chinese AIDS Initiative has been involved in several high-profile advocacy and public awareness events in China.  In November 2003, CAI organized the Tsinghua Summit on HIV/AIDS with former U.S. President Bill Clinton, the first international meeting of senior Chinese officials in developing a high-level national response to the epidemic.  Shortly thereafter, on December 1, 2003, Chinese leaders including Premier Wen Jiabao publicly commemorated World AIDS Day by embracing people living with

HIV/AIDS, a substantial step forward in the government’s recognition of and response to the growing Chinese epidemic.

About the China AIDS Initiative

Established in 2003, the China AIDS Initiative is a partnership between the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center, William J. Clinton Foundation, Tsinghua University, Yale-China Association, Harvard University, The China AIDS Media Project, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences (CAMS), Chinese Ministry of Health, Wuhan University, Chi Heng Foundation, provincial bureaus of health, a network of NGOs and other

partners.  The Initiative employs a comprehensive approach to HIV/AIDS prevention, advocacy, education and treatment in China.

Today, CAI is playing an increasingly important role in galvanizing China’s new leaders to prioritize AIDS by encouraging policy reform to reduce discrimination, developing campaigns to educate vulnerable populations and advocating greater public investment. For more information on the CAI, visit www.chinaaidsinitiative.org.

About the National Basketball Association

Since its founding in 1946, the NBA has truly become a global phenomenon that transcends national boundaries.  With 30 teams in the United States and Canada, NBA games and related programming are broadcast to 212 countries in 42 languages; they are one of the largest suppliers of sports television and Internet programming in the world.  The NBA is a recognized leader in global sports marketing with 13 offices around the world.  For more information on the NBA, visit NBA.com/china or NBA.com.



gruß werweiß  

1506 Postings, 7392 Tage joelutypisch caly-jünger:

 
  
    #2391
14.10.04 11:20
wenns sachlich-fachlich nicht mehr weiter geht, weil man mit dem rücken zur wand steht, versucht man wieder postings aus einem anderen board hereinzukopieren, um den kritiker in frage zu stellen.

die tatsache, dass ich den assozialen jonas-gumby beschimpft habe, nachdem er unflätig auf meine sachliche kritik reagiert hat, ändert nichts an der wahrhaftigkeit meiner postings über caly, gelle?

broker - schöne grüße an dich  

1544 Postings, 7908 Tage werweißHallo Apostel Joelu,

 
  
    #2392
14.10.04 11:30



reg dich nicht auf, heut ist ein schöner tag, auch wenn dich hier fast keiner mag,
oder besser gesagt, keiner will hören was du sagst, wenn ich ehrlich bin, ich auch nicht, du schreibst den gleichen schmarrn wie wir alle, nur der große unterschied, dein schmarrn findet hier keinen abnehmer !!!

gruß werweiß  

4515 Postings, 8575 Tage Realerjoelu

 
  
    #2393
14.10.04 11:33
Wenn Du Caly do dermaßen verurteilst, warum hälst Du dann nicht einfach die Fresse?

Nur mal so am Rande.....

...be happy and smile

 

1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikekeine Beleidigungen bitte mehr,danke

 
  
    #2394
14.10.04 11:54
ich dachte wir sollten sachlich wieder weiter machen, oder?
Grüße Lucky




Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

4515 Postings, 8575 Tage RealerDas ist doch ein Dieter Nuhr Spruch...

 
  
    #2395
14.10.04 11:56
und da ist WIRKLICH was wahres dran:

Wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal die Fresse halten!  

1963 Postings, 7629 Tage LuckyStrikedas zb. ist Sachlich !

 
  
    #2396
14.10.04 12:04
Posted by: sower
In reply to: None Date:10/13/2004 5:28:39 PM
Post #of 229

The last couple of days, I’ve been looking at AMEX stocks with outstanding shares ranging from 160,000,000 to 223,000,000. I wanted see at what price they were selling to get a feel for what Calypte might do given the same criteria. I also checked to see the valuation (last years earnings ÷ outstanding shares = true share value ÷ PPS.) for each stock. Valuation is a way to gauge what investors “expect” from the stock. It shows what they believe will happen down the road, so to speak. If they’re willing to put their money into a stock that’s not earning much, that means that they are looking ahead to higher earnings or some expectation of better days to come, and they want to be there before it happens.
ISON is an example of this. The stock recently annouced a Home Land Security Department that will manufacture a hand held bomb detection device for use in Airports etc. In two days the stock went from $1.68 to $3.09. The revenues for 2003 and the OS hadn't changed, but because of the potential, investors were buying in. That is why you can't always look at just the revenue and OS, but these figures give a reference point for estimating the future PPS for Calype.

There are 8 AMEX stocks that meet the range of revenue that Calypte might achieve in the next few years. The revenue from potential sales in Africa, China, Russia, India, US, Canada, Japan & Europe is hard to calculate. The only numbers we have right now are what Dr. George gave for China; 30M – 50M in the first year, building up to 100M by the third year.
Because there is no way to know for sure, I chose $200,000,000 as the top amount for revenue, Calypte may do more but that's as far I wanted to go for this example.

Here are the companies and their data:

Co.----------------OS------------------2003 Rev.-------Todays PPS--------Valuation
KRY -------178,000,000 ---------$ 12,000,000 ---------$ 3.05 --------------45.2
EAG -------202,000,000 ---------$ 13,000,000 ---------$ 0.66 --------------10.3
HEC -------260,000,000 ---------$ 29,000,000 ---------$ 0.61 ----------------4.3
SCMR -----172,000,000 ---------$ 44,000,000 ---------$ 3.81 --------------14.9
NXG -------200,000,000 -------$ 168,000,000 ---------$ 1.93 ----------------2.3
CDE -------213,000,000 -------$ 111,000,000 ---------$ 4.37 ----------------8.4
DNP -------220,000,000 -------$ 157,000,000 --------$ 11.23 --------------15.7
FNSR ------223,000,000 -------$ 208,000,000 ---------$ 1.29 ----------------1.4

Seven out of eight companies are trading at lower valuations than the 16.4 for Calypte. Also, non of these companies are in the Healthcare sector. But these are the only companies on the AMEX that meet the criteria for OS & Revenue.
If we look at our competitors (Bio-Rad, Trinity Biotech and OraSure) the highest valuation is OraSure at 5.4 times earnings. Using that as the valuation for Calypte and the current 169M OS the figures would be:

Revenue------------PPS
50,000,000 -----$ 1.60
100,000,000 ----$ 3.20
150,000,000 ----$ 5.70
200,000,000 ----$ 7.65

Here is the same revenue and OS data using the current 16.4 times earnings:

Revenue------------PPS
50,000,000 -------$ 4.89
100,000,000 ------$ 9.75
150,000,000 ----$ 14.68
200,000,000 ----$ 19.58


No one knows what valuation Calypte will have when the revenue reaches $200,000,000, or even if it will reach that point, but, using the conservative figure of 5.4 x earnings and the current OS, these stock prices are reasonable, and at 16.4 times earnings they are very good.

sower






Position- Long; ST Rating- Strong Buy; LT Rating- Strong Buy

 

1506 Postings, 7392 Tage joeludialer - ohe ahnung müsstet ihr

 
  
    #2397
14.10.04 13:11
eigentlich die fresse halten und nicht die, die fakten aus dem letzten filing bringen...  

4515 Postings, 8575 Tage RealerDefinier

 
  
    #2398
1
14.10.04 13:18
"Ahnung" ! DUUU hast also Ahnung???

Also wenn "Ahnung" in joelu gemessen würde, dann hätte ein normales Hausschwein 4 joelu!  

354 Postings, 7669 Tage wasserträgerLeute

 
  
    #2399
14.10.04 13:41
Was sol denn das... Bitte nicht persöhnlich werden. Lucky hat es doch schon gesagt Fakten bringen und nicht herummotzen.  

2171 Postings, 7489 Tage reliably@Lucky,

 
  
    #2400
14.10.04 13:54
darf ich meine Frage aus 2389 wiederholen,warum der Kurs Deiner
Meinung nach " unten gehalten " wird?
Welche Erklärung könnte es dafür geben?  

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